Monday, May 26, 2014

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. and sometimes...

...People with guns stop people from killing people.

Recently I came across a liberal commenter who challenged me, asking how come you never see any news stories with armed civilians stopping massacres like the current one in California. It struck me that he was completely sincere. He honestly thinks that such things don't and can't happen. He said that if such things actually happened, the "right-wing" Fox News Network would report on them all the time. In the first place, of course, Fox News is at best Republican-oriented, with very little actual conservatism or libertarianism to be found. And the Republican party is almost as anti-gun as the Democratic party is. But to a liberal, anything that isn't explicitly liberal is right-wing, and they can't distinguish between Nelson Rockefeller and Lew Rockwell — or even George Rockwell. It all looks alike to them.

In the first place, trying to answer him, there are heaps of shootings that don't take place simply because the potential shooters are afraid that there are armed citizens around. That's why so many such massacres, when they do happen, take place in "Gun-Free Zones." Likewise, such massacres tend to happen in areas of the country where armed citizens are perceived to be at a minimum. Speaking of gun-free zones, surely we've all heard by now of the North Carolina restaurant holdup.

Secondly, if a massacre is stopped before the body count piles up, then it isn't a massacre. Mike Lester provides a clear illustration of that phenomenon HERE.

Finally, the MAG (Media, Academia, Government) doesn't like stories about armed citizens protecting themselves and others, so such incidents are not reported on, and never seen in the national news. Or, as in the case of the Applachian Law School shooting linked below, I remember the national report saying that the perp was stopped by students, but the report left out the fact that they were armed students, because, as I said, they don't like stories like that, so they edit them down to fit the anti-gun narrative.

Well, here is a short list from the Gun Watch Website. If you know of any more such incidents, send me the links, and I'll add them, so this can be the go-to post for enlightening liberals who don't understand about self defense.


Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens


There are several documented cases where armed citizens have stopped mass attacks by gunmen. Let me list a few: The Pearl, Mississippi school shooting was stopped by the vice principal Joel Myrick with a Colt .45, The Appalachian School shooting was stopped by two students with handguns. Both of the above incidents were stopped by the armed citizens threatening the shooter without firing.
Pearl High School Link

Appalachian Law School Link

Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their "gnawing hunger for crack cocaine" fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back.
Muskegon Shooting Link

The mass church shooting in Colorado Springs was stopped by the shooter being shot by a church member with a CCW permit.
New Life Church Link

The Santa Clara gunshop shooting in 1999 was stopped by an armed citizen after the shooter declared that he was going to kill everyone. Police found a list of intended victims in his car. Only the perpetrator, Richard Gable Stevens was shot.
Santa Clara Gunshop Link

The December, 1991, Aniston, Alabama defense where a CCW holder stopped armed robbers who were herding employees, customers, and his wife into a cooler. He shot both robbers, killing one.
Aniston Shoney's Shooting Link

July 13, 2009, in Virginia at the Golden Food Market: The gunman tried to shoot several people, was stopped by a CCW carrier.
Golden Food Market Shooting Link

Just recently, in Early Texas, armed citizen Vic Stacy shot and stopped a deranged man who had just murdered two neighbors and was firing at police with a rifle. Stacy made a very long shot with his revolver, three times as far as the perpetrator was from the police officer, who had an AR-15 type rifle.
Early Texas Peach House Shooting Link

 Updated link to Peach House Shooting one Year Later

That sounds like a very good story... but it never made the national news.
I wonder who made the decision to spike that story.
Of course, when a mass shooting is stopped by an armed citizen, there are not as many victims. This leads to the charge that it would not really have been a “mass shooting”.

I have added this incident at the request of a reader:
Abraham Dickman had a history of anger against employees of the AT&T store in New York Mills, New York. On May 27th, 2010, he walked into the store with a .357 and a list of six employees. He shot the first employee, but was stopped from further attacks when Donald J. Moore, an off duty police officer who was allowed to carry his own handgun when not on duty, drew and fired his .40 caliber, killing Mr. Dickman before he could fire any more shots.
AT&T store Link

Here is another likely candidate.
College Park, GA, May 4, 2009.
Two gunman entered a party and ordered the men separated from the women. Then they started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.
When one of the assailants prepared to rape a girl, a student was able to access a handgun and engage the two attackers in a firefight, driving one off and killing the other before the thug could rape his girlfriend.
“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.
College Park Link

Another off duty police officer stopped the Trolley Square shooting with his personal handgun. He stopped the killing and contained the shooter until police reinforcements arrived and ended the situation.
Trolley Square Shooting Link

Winnemucca NV shooting, 25 May, 2008
The shooter, Ernesto Villagomez, entered the Players Bar and Grill and killed two people. He reloaded and was continuing to shoot when a citizen with a concealed carry permit shot him and stopped the killing.
Winnemuca Shooting Link

Parker Middle School Dance Shooting
14 Year old Andrew Jerome Wurst Killed one person and wounded three others when he was confronted by James Strand who subdued Wurst with a shotgun and held him until police arrived.
Parker Middle School Dance Shooting Link

Destiny Christian Center Shooting, April 24, 2012
Kiarron Parker rammed his car into another in the church parking lot, got out and attempted to kill multiple church members. He was only able to kill one before a member of the congregation, the nephew of the lady killed, and an off duty police officer, drew his handgun and shot Parker, stopping the killing.
Destiny Christian Center Shooting Link

Tyler Courthouse shooting, 2005 While police officers were involved in this shooting before and after Mark Alan Wilson intervened, no more people were killed after he shot the shooter, who had body armor, and who was able to return fire and kill the CCW holder, Wilson.
Tyler Courthouse Shooting Link

Clackamas Mall Shooting
I include this story because it is recent and has been getting some interest on the net. This case is not as clear as the others listed. This incident is similar to the more common defensive uses of guns because the mere display of the gun was enough to defuse the situation. We can never know if the shooter decided to commit suicide because he was confronted by Nick Meli, the CCW holder, as the shooter is dead. However, many mass shooters commit suicide when they know that armed resistance is at hand.
Clackamas Concealed Carry Showdown Link


I have added this link as suggested by Doug Kuiphoff in the comments.  I do not think that it qualifies as a mass shooting stopped, because the potential shooter says that he did not intend to shoot anyone, but to kidnap some people.  Still, it is an interesting story, so here is the link:
 SC:Boiling Springs Freewill Baptist Church event

Added, from 2012.  Consider that the Plymouth shooting incident happened just three months before Sandy Hook.  Mark Ktytor, a concealed carry permit holder, stopped a likely mass killing before it reached enough victims to officially quallify.   From the citizensvoice.com:
"Mark Ktytor?" the latest in the stream of reporters asked, trying to put a face to the name of the man investigators credited with preventing a fatal bar shooting last weekend from escalating into a massacre.
 Link to Plymouth, PA Shooting story

 Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
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Quibcag: Here we have Sonora Kashima (鹿島 そのら Kashima Sonora) from "Stella Women's Academy, High School Division Class C3" (特例措置団体ステラ女学院高等科C3部).

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